Category Archives: Networking

Have a plan

coffee-and-beansOver the past few weeks I have had coffees with a number of people who wanted to talk about being better at what they do – in some cases in and for their business, in some cases in their careers. When I asked them what they wanted to achieve in a specific sense, none of them could tell me. And none of them had a plan.

Whether it’s in business, for your personal career or in life generally – you need to have a plan. To do this, it helps to have a goal, an outcome you want to achieve this year, in the next five years or what you want to be remembered for.

For business, it’s usually about having a number of goals across the spectrum of the business including financial, people based, product or market focused and so on. Once the goals are set, consideration is given to the capabilities and the constraints in and outside the business in order to develop a strategy to achieve the goals. Measurable milestones together with allocated responsibilities allow a business to track its progress.

A plan for one’s personal career(s) is not really any different. One needs to set goals and then develop a plan on how to achieve them – whether that involves up-skilling, networking, increased exposure, finding a coach or sponsor to assist and so on. And you need to keep yourself honest – where are you up to? How many coffee meetings have I had this month?

And then there’s a personal life plan, one that you take with you through all the different aspects of your life. Do you have a personal mission statement, something that defines the way you do things? What do you want to be remembered for? Have you thought about what drives you, what you’re passionate about? Having a clear understanding helps to achieve all the other goals you may have along the way.

Stephen Covey’s second habit* is to begin with the end in mind. Knowing where you want to go keeps you on track and focused. There is less chance of distraction if you ask yourself “will this get me where I want to go?”. It also allows for “disruption” – because you can still change the plan if it will help you achieve your goals.

The other important part to having a plan is to articulate it. Create something visual or put it in writing (I am a fan of “strategy on a page”) where you can see it or regularly check it. It will keep you honest.

If you’ve gone to the effort of creating a plan (and it does take some effort – whether it’s pulling together pieces of data in the case of a business, or your own data and reflections for a personal or life plan), then stick to it. But honestly, if you don’t like the plan or there are “disruptive influences” then make a new one. Just make sure you have a plan.

 

Coffee count: 484

* Stephen R Covey “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People”

Advice, mentors & gut instinct

3 kinds coffeeOne of the initial reasons for starting this blog was to share the advice that I received during my various coffee meetings on the road to becoming a non-exec director. Having moved to Singapore only in the last six months, I am still very much in the mode of learning about the way things work here, who’s who, who’s doing what work and how to go about things.

Everyone I have had coffee with has been exceptionally friendly and giving (thank you again, if you are reading this). I suspect that in part, this comes from the fact that for many people, Singapore is not their original home, and they may remember what it was like to arrive here and start from scratch. Notably, there have also been a number of people who have been especially helpful with introductions and suggestions and very direct feedback. This is significant in a society where speaking directly is not always an acceptable way of communicating!

In the process of these coffee meetings, as the new person I am often effectively “pitching” myself and my skills as well as asking questions about whom to speak with, what to join and where I can try to be of value. In some cases, I have been honoured to be able to also provide advice to others who are at different stages of their careers. A recent range of responses to a particular question I posed made me reflect on both my reaction to the answers I was given and the way in which I ask questions and provide advice.

Often the discussion I have with my coffee partner develops organically and there isn’t necessarily a defined set of questions. But recently, I  put the same direct question to three different coffee partners – all of whom have lived here for more than a decade. The answers I received were “yes, definitely”, “no, don’t bother” and “probably, there’s no harm”. Now it’s fair to say I am not seeking medical advice from specialists, so there are no life and death consequences from having such conflicting advice. But it does make it a little bit more difficult to work out what line of action to take when one has such a range of responses.

As I reflected on this divergence of opinions, I realised that each person was giving me their view, no doubt, informed by their own past experiences and current context. The trick for me was to try not to take their response at face value, but to colour it with my knowledge of their experience and context to find its applicability to me.

This led me to the notion of ‘gut instinct’. Prior to asking the particular question, I had my own view, also informed by my past experience and current circumstances. The point of seeking others’ advice was to learn what I didn’t know about my new environment to better inform my own view. The reality is that each person has a unique combination of experience, history and context. The key was to listen to the advice, try to ascertain what influenced or gave rise to that advice and then disseminate it with my own circumstances. This is where the process of rationalisation should result in you establishing what will work best for you; what makes sense in your situation. This will generally lead you to a view that fits with your ‘gut instinct’, your intuition about yourself.

Given the conflicting advice, depending on which action I take, it will go against the advice provided by at least one of my coffee partners. The key to realise is that it doesn’t mean that everything they suggested is not applicable, nor that their advice was any less helpful. In fact, having someone suggest something that goes counter to your own leanings is incredibly useful to force you to think about why you may have wanted to take a particular action. It is the same as the different perspective that comes from having a diverse team at board or executive level that helps ensure that groupthink doesn’t result in taking a course of action because everyone thinks the same way.

Similarly, those who impart advice or who have the privilege to mentor others, need to remember that such advice needs to be provided with context and experience. Mentors often will ask questions rather than offer direct advice, and those questions also need to be posed in a way that makes the other person assess their own circumstances with an insight into others’ experiences and the applicability or not of those experiences to their own position. This, in turn, should allow the mentee the ability to consider different actions and their implications and what ultimately may work for them, based on their own understanding of themselves, their gut instinct.

 

Coffee count: 424

Blind Dates and Coffee Meetings

heart coffeeAs regular readers of this irregular blog will be aware, I have recently relocated to Singapore, which is my excuse for the lack of a post for a few months. However, now that I am starting to feel settled, I am trying to get back to my coffee meetings – knowing that this is the way to meet people. In doing so, I have had to overcome the hesitation that arises in contacting people I either hardly know or don’t know at all. While discussing this with someone last week, an analogy was drawn between trying to build a new network of friends or business associates and blind dating. I reflected on this a little and thought it was worth sharing the commonalities and differences between blind dates and coffee meetings to build a network and seek work.

According to Wikipedia, “a blind date is a social engagement between two people who have not previously met, usually arranged by a mutual acquaintance…..   Sometimes one person is more interested in the match than the other…The date is usually two hours or less, as it is just a first date and is really meant to introduce the two people more than it is meant to create a marriage… The date is also very adventurous in the way that neither party knows what to expect and whether or not they will hit it off.”

So far, a blind date has much in common with a coffee meeting, particularly as they often come about through the introduction of a third party and seemingly, one party may be seeking a greater outcome from the meeting that the other. A coffee meeting doesn’t guarantee a board role or any relationship for that matter, and there may or may not be a connection.

A little more research took me to a site with tips for a blind date. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on a blind date, so I have taken the liberty of summarizing their* tips for a blind date and added my own tips for a coffee meeting – I don’t profess to be an expert in blind dates by any stretch! To a large extent, the tips for both are common sense, but sometimes it doesn’t hurt to reiterate the obvious – it helps calm the nerves. They have served as a good reminder to me as I start my coffees in Singapore; they may help others – for coffee meetings or blind dates!

  1. Set Expectations to Neutral
    Blind date advice: Don’t think it’s going to be a waste of time; equally don’t expect that the universe is bringing you your future spouse.
    Coffee meeting advice: Don’t expect a board role to come from the coffee meeting, it’s just an introduction. It will only be a waste of time if you let it be and don’t make the most of the opportunity.
  2. Have a plan
    Blind date advice: have a plan of where to go, even if it’s just for coffee so s/he knows you’ve taken the time to plan and make her/him feel special.
    Coffee meeting advice: Have an expectation of what you want to ask for in the meeting or what you want to learn or understand from the person you are having coffee with.
  3. Dress to Impress
    Blind date advice: Don’t wear work clothes, don’t wear clothes that make you look overweight (I did say some of the tips were obvious), take care with your look as first impressions matter.
    Coffee meeting advice: Dress appropriately for the meeting and the location. It is generally a work related coffee meeting, so it’s work. First impressions do matter – when it’s not right it does leave a negative impression.
  4. Arrive Early
    Blind date advice: Being early gives one a home field advantage and allows you to be comfortable in your surroundings.
    Coffee meeting advice: Be early or on time. Don’t be late. Someone has offered you their valuable time for free, don’t abuse it. Arriving late will give the impression that your time is more important than theirs – and that doesn’t leave a good impression!
  5. Relax
    Blind date advice: Nerves apparently ruin more dates than anything else so relax and have fun. But cut your date some slack if they are not relaxing and give them a chance.
    Coffee meeting advice: Nerves ruin meetings as well. If you don’t relax, you won’t breathe properly, the brain stops functioning at its optimal level and chances are that you will say things you regret or not listen closely enough.
  6. Keep the Conversation Flowing
    Blind date advice: Try asking a fun question that gets you both thinking and opens the door to interesting conversation – such as sharing two truths and a lie.
    Coffee meeting advice: Hard to top the blind date advice here – but perhaps that’s better left for blind dates. Rather, do some research on the person you’re having coffee with and have some questions for them. Know what you want to achieve from the meeting.
  7. Don’t Get Too Personal
    Blind date advice: The idea is to see if you have common interests. Don’t be judgmental, be a good listener.
    Coffee meeting advice: Don’t expect that one coffee meeting will lead to a best friend, mentor, sponsor or business partner. One doesn’t have to share one’s whole personal story, but enough to provide an insight into your interests and skills. You definitely have to be a good listener and to show interest.
  8. Leave on a High Note
    Blind date advice: Good or bad, leave the date on a high note rather than when the conversation goes dry or the date has lasted more than an hour and half.
    Coffee meeting advice: The same is true for a coffee meeting, but be respectful of the other person’s time and don’t let it take an hour and half. There’s always the opportunity for another coffee – or another 999…..

Coffee count: 400

 

* http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi_100/119_dating_girl.html

Find a sponsor or be prepared to be very brave

twoespressosSome months ago I was at a charity lunch and had the pleasure of meeting a two accomplished women. One was about to finish her current executive role and was planning to develop a portfolio of non-executive directorships. She was already on a couple of community and not-for-profit boards. The other was an experienced company director. By the time we left the lunch, I realised that the experienced director was clearly a sponsor of the first woman, as she was very busy introducing her to others and arranging for her to meet people.

Six months later, the aspiring non-executive director has been appointed to the boards of three listed companies.

Let it be said, I am delighted for this female director for having been able to achieve her goals so well and so quickly. She is clearly talented and brings a particular skill set that is needed by the boards that she has joined. But I have no doubt that having a sponsor who was proactively putting the aspiring director forward would have helped immensely.

For without a sponsor, you have to go it alone. You have to have lots of coffees, develop a profile, speak with headhunters and generally put yourself forward wherever possible, without at the same time looking desperate! You do have to be prepared to be “out there”. And without a clear sponsor, you need to be brave. You may have to ask others to introduce you to third parties or even recommend you to a particular chairman for a particular board.

Not everyone has a sponsor, but if you can find one, make the most of the opportunity. Having someone open the doors for you, be thinking of you and promoting you without your prompting, or even at your suggestion, is a very powerful tool in the world where personal recommendations mean so much. If appropriate, be brave and ask someone to be your sponsor or champion, if you are confident that they know you and would be pleased to recommend you.

However, just because you don’t have a sponsor doesn’t mean you can’t get the roles you want. It just may take more time and effort. You will have to be prepared to take measures into your own hands. There is no doubt, it does take a certain amount of bravery and confidence. You have to “lean in” and push yourself out. But if you have the right skills and experience, and enough people know about you, the right roles will eventuate.

Coffee count: 391

View from the other side – CVs

coffee and skyThere is probably a little bit of irony given that this blog documents my search for a non-executive director portfolio, that many of the coffees I have had since the last post have been to recruit new directors rather than to be recruited myself.

One of the tasks that I have as the new chairman is to ensure that the two vacancies that will now be on our board with the retirement of past directors are filled. A review of the skills of the existing board members together with an understanding of directors’ future intentions have led us to seek to not only fill the existing vacancies but, to use a sporting analogy, develop a “bench” of potential future directors. Being a board made up of volunteers, we need to be as efficient as possible.

We were blessed with responses from quite a number of skilled and experienced applicants and as I sat and reviewed their covering letters and accompanying emails, I had a moment of clarity. A number of times over the past couple of years the advice I have received has been to ensure my CV expresses the value I can bring to a board (see Stalking vs keeping in touch and Morphing executive to non-executive). As I read through these CVs they all told me of the wonderful things they had achieved in their executive roles, the projects and people they had managed and what they had been or been doing for the past 15-30 years.

There was only one CV that addressed the skills that we might be looking for together with their experience. I found myself thinking “Yes, but what will you bring to the board?” or “What value do you add?” I could suddenly understand the perspective of people who have to read multiple CVs. It’s tough enough, but to have to distil for oneself the value someone might bring to the board rather than them spelling it out for me, made the process of reviewing the CVs much more laborious. And given that some CVs stretched to six pages and beyond – it really was work.

It is something I have tried to do before and as simple as it sounds, it’s not that simple, especially for someone who hasn’t sat on a board. Understanding how one’s skills might be utilised around a board table or in a board sub-committee is not easy to imagine if one hasn’t had the experience. Nevertheless, I think it is possible, it just requires a bit of effort and imagination, applying experience from working in meetings in other situations.

So I’m going back to review my CV again. I’ll be ensuring it stays at 1-2 pages and is easy for the reader to know what value and skills I can bring to their board.

Coffee count: 304

A new role

turkishIn June last year, I was appointed to my first board, having sat as an observer for a couple of months before that. At the end of June this year, the directors of that board nominated me to be their Chairman, effective 1 July, taking over from the founding chairman.   I have expressed thanks to the directors and appreciation for the confidence they have in me to chair the board at a time when the company looks to move into the next stage of its growth.

Within days of the board meeting, I was on a plane to spend a little over a week touring around Turkey with my oldest son, who was meeting me, having enjoyed the first half of his gap year overseas. While exploring the fascinating landscapes and history of Turkey, I took some time to reflect on the process to date of becoming a non-executive director and the expectations on me as a chairman. These expectations are both set by others and by the “a-type” personality that resides within!

In reflecting on the process to date, on the one hand, I should be pleased to have not only a chairman’s role but also have been appointed to the board of the foundation for an important cultural institution in Sydney. Both these roles provide me with opportunities to try to add value based on my previous executive and not-for-profit experience. They also provide me with challenging issues to consider, decisions on which require rigorous thought. On the other hand, I have now been knocked back for two listed board roles where in each case, it seemed I had the exact experience and skill set the board was looking for, with deep relevant industry experience and apparently glowing references. Both times at least one reason was that I didn’t have listed board experience.

I am persisting with my coffee meetings, but have not found large networking functions a worthwhile proposition. It only brings home the message that there are so many other people seeking the same roles!

So if I am to keep on doing what I’m doing, I can only hope to do the best I can in the roles I have and to gain further experience. While pondering this and stirring one of my many Turkish coffees, it struck me that the characteristics I would need to bring to the new chairman’s role were the same as the characteristics of a good Turkish coffee. Ground, cooked over a flame until just below the boil, Turkish coffee is best served strong and a little sweet. Leading a board through a period of change, particularly after having the same chairman for the past 10 years, is going to require me to at times be strong, to help the board approach things in a different way – more suited to that of an established rather than developing company. My aim is to lead from within, rather than from the front, but that will require ensuring I can bring everyone along. It will take an inner strength to know when to encourage others to adopt a different view or approach to the one from the past as well as to know when I should allow others to lead and direct a course of action. At the same time, as change isn’t always easy for some, even just the change in chairman and the way a meeting is run, so it will need sweetness in the form of recognition and consideration.

And with a new financial year, the coffee meetings need to ramp up again. Perhaps this year will bring another step in the process. After all, I still have 724 to go.

Coffee count: 276

(While it was a delightful experience to travel with my son, I don’t think it’s appropriate to count the coffees and glasses of raki that we shared!)

Circles of Action and Confirmation

images-11Those of you who are familiar with Steven Covey’s book “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” (a book I read back in the early 1990’s and have revisited a number of times since) may recall his concentric circle model of the Circle of Influence and the Circle of Concern.  His theory is that proactive people focus on their circle of influence, which sits inside their circle of concern.  It’s a notion that I have often considered, along with the fact that worrying about things in your circle of concern but over which you have no influence is wasted energy (like getting frustrated when you’re stuck in traffic!).

This proactive focus can also be applied to the process of finding board roles. However, I have come to the realisation that the process also has two other circles in play: the circle of action and the circle of confirmation.  Regular readers of this blog may recall that it is called “1000 coffees” because someone told me that it would take 1000 coffee meetings to achieve the board portfolio I was after.  This resonated with many others and it seems to have some truth.  While one has to have coffees with people both within the circle of action and the circle of confirmation, a board role is much more likely to come from the inner circle: the circle of action.  Let me explain from my own perspective.

The circle of action consists of people with whom I have worked.  It may be people who I have reported to, clients, people I worked alongside or who were part of the same team.  They may be people who worked in the same organisation at the same time and while not working directly with me, were aware of the work I was doing. The things these people all have in common is that they have seen me in action: have seen how I work and the product of my work. They can speak first hand of how I operate, how I deal with people and issues.  That gives others a degree of comfort if they haven’t worked with me themselves.

The circle of confirmation is a much wider circle.  It consists of people whom I have met (and often had coffee with).  They may be people who have talked with me at length, interviewed me (in the case of headhunters particularly) but not actually worked with me.  They are the people who can confirm that I might be a good sort, don’t seem to have two heads and seem to be able to string some sentences together to make sense.

Until I have enough board roles so that my experience speaks for itself, I believe potential board roles will largely come from the circle of action.  They will come from people I have worked with previously taking action, suggesting me to a chairman, a headhunter or a member of a nomination committee as someone who might be able to meet the requirements of the role they are seeking to fill.  Their personal experience of me will carry the weight of a recommendation.  And when my name comes up on a list, it will help if there are a number of other people who can confirm (and thus are in the circle of confirmation) that they have met me or heard of me and believe I might be able to do the role.

One needs both circles. Understanding the potential role of the people within each circle and to which circle a person belongs helps to bring focus to the process and the outcomes that might be able to be achieved from each of the coffees.

As with all things, there will be exceptions to the rule, but I thought this theory has enough legs to make it worth including in this blog.

Coffee count: 192

The inevitable dip

coffees2It’s been just over a month since my last blog entry, but I’m back in the saddle.  Rather than it being an issue with writer’s block, I have experienced the dip in enthusiasm and confidence that seems to strike from time to time.

I know I am not alone here, as during a conversation last week, a female non-executive director who is similarly building a portfolio of NED roles but has not yet “cracked” a listed company role, mentioned the same thing.  When one needs to promote oneself each day and keep finding methods to connect with people in a relevant way and one receives warm responses but no real action, inevitably it becomes a tough road.  The enthusiasm to keep going, to keep sending emails, making phone calls, perusing LinkedIn, ebbs a little.  It’s not like I’ve run out of strategies, or don’t have a list of people to follow up – but it’s tough to just keep hammering away. It’s like the business development executive who intuitively understands that success will come from relationships and that it takes time to build relationships, but who sometimes wonders if the sale opportunity is ever going to come.

The director I was conversing with last week said she had a group of women with whom she meets regularly and they share their experiences, ultimately giving each other support.  She is absolutely right.  One needs friends, a mentor or a colleague with whom one can share the frustration and disconcertion of the process and who will encourage and support you.

You could see it as being part of the process of building resilience in future directors.  Or alternatively regard it as part of the natural selection process – those who can manage the adversity of being ignored and having to nevertheless stay the course (or veer to find a better course) will ultimately be better directors.  And if not ultimately true, that’s the kind of positive self-talk one needs to have to focus and get one’s stride back again!

For me this time, a 10 day escape to New York was a good way to have a break from the process.  The distraction could not have come at a better time, although it was disappointing to hear news that I didn’t make the cut for the AICD mentoring program (more on that in a future blog).  Right now, I’m back and ready to go again.

Coffee count: 162 (coffee in NY doesn’t count – despite an increase in boutique brewers, good coffee is still hard to find)

Good time for women

coffees4After my blog a few weeks ago noting how difficult it is to get into government, I thought I should give credit where it’s due.

Anyone interested in the non-executive director (NED) space would be aware of the discussion about women on boards in the past few years.  The discussion has covered the gamut of topics, from the fact there are not enough women on boards, why this is so, how to improve this situation, that companies with more women on their boards do better, and consequently what a good time it is for women who are seeking board roles.  Plenty of talk, real change is taking longer….

There are lots and lots of very qualified women looking for board roles. I’ve met many of them and everyone I meet tells me that too.  While there aren’t lots of female ex-C-suite executives to fill board vacancies, it would not be unreasonable to suggest that there are many women seeking board positions who are better qualified for a NED role than some existing male NEDs.  As this blog canvasses, there are lots of reasons why it’s hard for women to break through into the network and there are lots of lessons we are learning in the process.  But despite the fact there is both a supposedly strong demand and certainly a plentiful supply, that first board role is still elusive for many women.

Last year, the Federal Minister for Finance and Deregulation, Senator Penny Wong, announced the BoardLinks initiative, directly aimed at providing “more opportunities for women to be appointed to their first board, to launch and further their directorship careers” and to meet the Australian Government’s own target of having 40% women on Government boards.  It was very gratifying that someone in a position of influence understood the “first board barrier” and sought to do something about it!!  At this point, BoardLinks has operated to provide a database of appropriately qualified women to Government organisations, which at least makes the organisations aware of potential candidates who are women who might not otherwise be seen through networks or recruiter introductions.  So far so good. However it’s still a passive process from the relevant women’s perspective.  Hopefully there is more to come.

Now the Federal Government has launched a new website called Australian Government Boards which contains information “relating to more than 450 Australian Government boards and bodies across government, including a description of each board and its function, positions and appointments and term expiry dates” (http://www.ausgovboards.gov.au/).  This site provides a single location to make an active search and campaign for a government board much simpler and more transparent.  Anyone can now find out easily what boards there are, who is on the board, where there might be opportunities and when and work out how to make an approach.  This is definitely a step in the right direction and should be applauded by all those who have had the advice “try and get on a government board”!

I do suspect this information might result in a few more coffees for me…..

Coffee count: 160

Getting into government

coffees4In at least half of the meetings I’ve had with non-executive directors and almost all the meetings with head hunters, their advice has been to seek a role on a government board.  Government boards are regarded as good places to gain experience and make connections.  How one achieves that is another thing…

The Federal and NSW Governments both have registers for women seeking board positions. No doubt similar registers exist in the other states.  As it’s the obvious place to start, I register and receive automated replies acknowledging such.  Given that, as with all things, a personal interaction is usually more helpful, I try to find a way to add a personal element to my submission on the register.  It takes a fair bit of research but eventually I have a conversation with the person responsible for maintaining the NSW register, only to be told that it works a little like a matching database and there is no opportunity to have any personal contact.  No response to from the person who maintains the Federal Government database…

The search for some personal contact continues.  A friend with contacts forwards my CV directly to the NSW Treasurer. I receive a letter from a member of his staff acknowledging it and suggesting that I register on the NSW register. Hello, I’m already on it!  Didn’t anyone cross-check??

Finally, one of my coffee meetings elicits the name and number of the person who manages the process of recommending directors for NSW State Owned Corporations (SOCs). He described the multi-layered approach to coming up with a shortlist of names for board vacancies for SOCs, which seems to involve the existing chairman and board, possibly head hunters the board has appointed, the Treasurer and his staff and possibly another Minister and his or her staff. He went on to explain that his role is to manage the process to a point and then from the time of the interviews to a decision being made, the process is out of his hands and the time it takes is variable; it rests with the Ministers, the competing demands on their time and, inevitably, some politics.  With the patience obviously gained working in government, he explains that the process is not dissimilar to that of the corporate world – it helps to be known by the people involved in the process.

Looks like getting into government roles will take a few more coffee meetings….

Coffee count: 148

Stalking vs keeping in touch

machiattoIn the process of doing the coffee rounds for a little over a year, I have been seeking people’s advice and suggestions as to how to build a portfolio of non-exec directorships.  The purpose of meeting with people has also been to try to put myself into people’s frames of view and make them aware of my skills, so that they might think of me when a role arises.

So now it’s time to go back to many of the directors and headhunters to tell them I’m still around and looking for roles. Unfortunately, I don’t have much new to tell them! Will I look like a loser if I say “Hi there, still out there looking. Only changes to my CV are that I’ve taken on people’s advice as to how to describe my skills”?  Or do I say “Just keeping in touch. You said the search would take a while and it is. I’m still out here”?

Most of these people are busy people and I don’t want to keep emailing them with nothing new to tell them. But how does one keep front of mind if one doesn’t?  Don’t want to be seen as a stalker, or even worse, a persistent sales person (because let’s face it, one has to sell oneself in this process).  I’m going to go with a space of 6-12 months to reconnect with people. Ultimately, persistence has to be seen as a good attribute……doesn’t it?

Coffee count: 130